A conversation with the remarkable young woman behind the groundbreaking Beeple NFT sale who shows us the impact innovation can have on the trajectory of an organization.
A conversation between Steph Wagner, Director of Women and Wealth, and Meghan Doyle, Christie’s Jr. Specialist and the force behind the landmark Beeple NFT sale last year.
The following transcript has been edited for clarity.
Steph Wagner: Hi, I'm Steph Wagner, Director of Women and Wealth here at Northern Trust. And I am thrilled to be joined today by Meghan Doyle. Welcome, Meghan.
Meghan Doyle: Hi Steph. Thanks so much for having me.
Steph Wagner: Meghan is a junior specialist in the Postwar and Contemporary Art department at Christie's New York. She played an instrumental role in the groundbreaking sale of Beeple’s Everydays: The First 5,000 Days, which was the very first digital-only artwork ever to be offered at a major auction house. And I will add that this remarkable young woman is just 25-years-old.
The results of this historic auction are truly mind-blowing. This single lot sale of an NFT realized more than $69 million. And for those of you like me who, before this, had never heard of the acronym, NFT stands for non-fungible token. The opening bid was just $100 and within eight minutes, bidding reached more than $1 million. There were 33 active bidders, 88% of whom had never participated in a Christie's auction before.
All of this is impressive, but I think what is more interesting than the sale price, or even how this auction opened Christie's up to an entirely new collector base, is the backstory.
While this landmark sale was a team effort, your ability to see the need for innovation and step in played such a pivotal role in making it all happen, and for me is just so inspiring. Meghan, I can't thank you enough for being here to share your insight and your story and, frankly, your passion around all this.
Meghan Doyle: Well, thank you again Steph. The sale was certainly historic and broke open an entirely new marketplace in fine art, as well as what is considered art at the auction house level.
The first glimpse that we had of this marketplace was in October 2020 when we offered a physical artwork that was accompanied by an NFT. At the time, no one really knew what that was. I was working on the sale, so I cataloged that work and gave myself a crash course, if you will, in NFTs. At the conclusion of that auction, that work performed very well against estimate.
After the sale, a digital art marketplace reached out with this crazy idea of getting rid of the physical component entirely and only offering the NFT portion, i.e., digital-only artwork.
So I did some research, put together a glossary of terms and figured out what blockchain was. And none of this was necessarily easy because of the nature of blockchain — it’s incredibly decentralized. There's really no hub or locale where you go on the internet to figure all this out. I was pulling information from a variety of sources and trying to piece together what this thing was in order to understand it, so I could bring it to my colleagues and say if this is something we should do, or if this is something we should pass on. Based on my research, it seemed like these digital-only works had been selling decently, call it $50,000, $60,000. Again, this is October, 2020and it felt like, okay, maybe this is something to pursue. So I put together a synopsis of what I had found, and forwarded it to a couple of people who I thought might be able to make something happen in time for our December season. But given our deadline, no one really had the bandwidth to take on this entirely new thing where not only do we have to learn about the artwork, but we also have to learn about the technology that makes the artwork. The barrier to entry was very high here. We tabled it for the end of 2020, although I remained in touch with the digital art marketplace.
At the beginning of 2021, a few of us were back in the office — one of whom was our head of online sales. This is really the venue where I thought it was most appropriate, given the technology and the type of work it was. I had emailed him my synopsis and hadn't heard back, so I tapped him on the shoulder and said, “Hey, I want to run this idea of a digital-only artwork in your online sale. I'll write the catalog essay for it because I've figured it out at this point. What do you say?” Initially, there was that same hesitation given the high barrier to entry — "We're not sure what this is, we have no clue who the collectors are, who's going to buy this thing, yada, yada, yada." But I pushed a little bit more and I said, "Look, I will take care of the basics — I'll do the cataloging, I'll write the note, just put it in the back of the sale and see what happens. Give me this spot as an experiment." And he said "Yes."
So I was able to go back to the digital art marketplace and say, “We have a spot, Christie's is going to sell your thing. What do you want it to be?” And that's when they brought us Beeple. And I said, “Who?”
And that's when they brought us Beeple. And I said, “Who?”
Then I did a little bit more research and realized that this guy was really on the rise. He had an incredible sale in October 2020, and then another in December. Then in right in February — which at this point we were already off to the races with offering his work — there was a peer-to-peer transaction in the region of $6 million. So all of that really set the stage for the opening of the auction at the end of February.
Then, like you said, there was a two-week bidding period and March 11, 2021 went down in history. We were on the cover of the Wall Street Journal the next day.
Steph Wagner: Well, $6 million is impressive, but $69 million is a whole different story and a whole different headline, to your point Meghan. If I can, let's go back to the initial resistance to the innovation you mentioned. It is so understandable because of bandwidth issues and likely something faced by any large organization. But I love your persistence.
Something you said that I think is so important is that you took it upon yourself to make this happen. You didn't let that obstacle of time or bandwidth stop what has turned out to be a really critical moment for the art world, and for Christie’s, right? Is there anything you want to add about how you persevered through that initial resistance?
Meghan Doyle: Definitely. I think you hit on it with the idea of having the time necessary to devote to figuring things out. And the way the sale calendar works, it just so happened that my sale had just concluded and I had the extra time. But even after taking the time to figure it out and making it more intelligible for some of my colleagues, the response was generally “This is cool, but check with this person.” And then that person said, “This is cool, but check with that person.” It was a little bit of internal ping pong, not only for who has the capacity to start thinking about this alongside of me, but also who is going to be passionate enough to support the project?
I would say the obstacle was less about making a pitch for this new medium and more about making a persuasive play to get other people to agree that it is something that we should, do or at least try. Like you said, in a big organization, it takes so much manpower to move because everything is dedicated to keeping the status quo. Who in your organization has a little bit of extra space — whether that be time, energy or inbox space — to take on carving a new path? Where is there a bit of margin that you can dedicate to moving beyond the status quo? You need to find the people within your organization, or if they're already presenting themselves allow them to step forth, and give them the space to see what's beyond the track that you're already treading.
Does that make sense?
Give them the space to see what's beyond the track that you're already treading.
Steph Wagner: Absolutely — very well said. And I think something that's so relatable to all of us who are in a big organization. There is a role for all of us to play in making it happen. I just think it's very impressive because you took a risk and they took a risk. Everyone took this risk and who would've thought that it would become such a landmark moment? And, if you hadn't taken the risk, look at the opportunity cost — what would've been missed. And I'm excited to see where this goes for Christie's!
Meghan Doyle: It's so true. Steph, I love that you brought up opportunity costs, too. In fact, I recently spoke to a researcher who's looking at where innovation comes from within organizations. His hypothesis is that more often than we might think, innovation comes from more junior level members. So naturally, you're driven to ask “Why? Isn't it the senior people who have the influence, who have the authority, and who make the decisions?” Yes, but also when you're at a certain level of your career, your time is full of keeping things status quo. And this is good and necessary, but your stakes are really high. What I mean is the risk is so much greater when you get to higher levels within an organization. But if you empower more junior members, if you allow them some space, they can experiment with less probability for negative return.
Steph Wagner: Right.
Meghan Doyle: And if something like this explodes and does really well, then it's something that more senior people are able to be dedicated to because it's a less scary enterprise.
Steph Wagner: So well said Meghan. And if it fails, there is still success in it. There's still a learning opportunity in it for that younger partner, and progress that was made without that tremendous risk of pivotal failure.
Meghan Doyle: Yes, and I think this is very important to note, even if you pursue the innovation, it likely won’t translate into a $69 million New York Times headline. And I think that's really, really important to get across. And I don't want to overstate myself here, but it feels like there's only so many inflection points that can happen within a certain amount of time. While I don't expect to see another one in the future because of a small part of my work now, that shouldn't discourage me or anybody from taking on innovation. This NFT started at $100. It could have flopped, it could have sold for $500 and then it would've been like, “OK, we tried that,” and moved on to the next thing. But I think I would've still been driven to pursue the next opportunity should something arise.
Steph Wagner: I love that, because what you're saying is don't let it stop those big ideas. Don't stop thinking big because you have this unrealistic expectation of getting a $69 million success tag on it. I think that is so important for all of us to think about. The world needs more trailblazers. We need more folks to think big. And you are certainly a role model at that, I must tell you.
Meghan Doyle: And I think if we have trailblazers, we also need mechanics. We need the people to facilitate the trail-blazing, you know? The gardeners, and the weeders ... and the blazers. Just add to the metaphor, however you wish! But it's like you said, it takes a team effort on more than just the logistical level. It's allowing the space and the fertile ground in which an idea can take root.
I think if we have trailblazers, we also need mechanics.
Steph Wagner: Yes.
Meghan Doyle: And in that way, it's this kind of multi-generational support system where the higher levels have the ability to support interesting, exciting ideas coming from more junior level. But the more junior level also might have something to add to the status quo — something that senior leaders haven't thought of yet. This open-mindedness allows learning to become a two-way street.
Steph Wagner: A true partnership experience.
Meghan Doyle: A true partnership. It's experience and exposure. It's letting people who have different backgrounds come in and change your perspective. And that's certainly not unique to this particular scenario. You see that all over the place.
Steph Wagner: Yes, I completely agree. But sometimes we forget. Sometimes we get busy and we lose sight. And I know through our conversations and me getting to know you and your story, it certainly has helped me build awareness around the role I need to play with some of these bright, incredibly talented junior partners who are coming up in their careers — it’s a two way street. So I thank you for that. Hopefully I can bring that into my own professional life. And frankly, maybe into my own family, as I look at my sons. Maybe they know more than I think they do!
Meghan Doyle: And along with that, sometimes new ideas are raw. It's not like “Here, I'm bringing this to you on a silver platter.” Sometimes it's just like, “Hey, this thing came to me and I think we should do something about it.” And so as someone with more experience, it's so meaningful when you devote a small period of time to reiterating the processes that you know so well, so that a more junior member can apply them to a raw idea.
Meghan Doyle: Personally, I've learned a lot from watching my more senior specialists in the department and colleagues communicate with clients. I've taken what they're already very good at and have applied it to the new idea. And I think that's another way in which the dichotomy works both ways.
Steph Wagner: Very well said. One thing I want to touch on — because I think it's something that everyone relates to — is the issue of self-doubt. I often throw out to folks that I work with, “Hey, by the way, that self-doubt you might feel? It's normal.” And I often hear back “Thank goodness! Because yes, I have it.” I'm curious if you faced self-doubt. Because I do think hearing about how others combat it (or lean in to it and use it to redirect their thinking) can be helpful in our own lives.
Meghan Doyle: I think the self-doubt that I experienced as a direct result of this particular situation was mainly derived from the uphill battle that I needed to fight internally to get this idea to see the light. And so it was less about, “I don't think I can do this,” and more about, “Why doesn't anybody else think I can do this?”
It was less about, “I don't think I can do this,” and more about, “Why doesn't anybody else think I can do this?”
Steph Wagner: Good for you — you rewrote the narrative.
Meghan Doyle: But you start to take it personally! And there's nothing wrong with that. But I think self-doubt and imposter syndrome hold hands, but they're not necessarily the same thing. Imposter syndrome, from my limited perspective, seems to come after you've done a thing. Self-doubt comes as you're are doing the thing.
Steph Wagner: Well said.
Meghan Doyle: So, once you get people on your team, whether that's because they really do trust you say, “Okay, well, I have no idea what she's talking about, but she sounds good talking about it. So we may as well support her.” Or if it's people getting on board and saying, “Yes, actually we think that this can succeed too.” You get past the self-doubt by getting people on your team and either touting the work that you've already done or the idea itself, then the thing happens. And then you find yourself in a room where you never expected to be, and I certainly didn't expect to be there as a 25-year-old woman in the workplace. I think it's important to say, given the context of the interview.
Meghan Doyle: And you start to ask, “How did I land here? What can I contribute here?” And in those situations, it has been so crucial for me to go back to basics and say, “What do I know in this room better than anybody else in this room?” And even if it's just one piece of information, that's the piece that I'm going to hold onto. That's what I'm going to contribute to the conversation, because that's why I'm here and that's what got me here.
So self-doubt is certainly a routine battle. It's not one that you conquer once, at least that’s not how I’ve experienced it. But it’s definitely just a recitation in your head of, “Here’s what I know, here’s what I’m good at, and I don’t need to step outside those bounds because that’s what got me into the room.” I'll continue developing what I know naturally — I'm a curious person, I'm a learner inherently. But beyond that, I can't be expected to contribute any more than what got me to the room in the first place.
Steph Wagner: Great advice. I love how you broke down the logic around how self-doubt comes first, and the imposter syndrome sets in later. And your advice just now is such a great way to think about it. Any other thoughts for those that are thinking big and wanting to create action? In partnership with a great team, you certainly created a truly a groundbreaking event. We’re not all going to do that! But I think there's so many ways that each of us can become trailblazers in our own right.
It comes down to a genuine commitment to pursuing what matters to you.
Meghan Doyle: I completely agree with you, and I think it comes down to a genuine commitment to pursuing what matters to you as a human being. And in this case, what mattered to me was learning about a new thing and seeing how other people would respond to it. So even in the face of other people not taking up the flag immediately, self-doubt that derived from that, and subsequent imposter syndrome at each step of the way, I was driven to be knowledgeable. I was driven to be the smartest person in the room on that particular subject. Beyond that, I think you can be passionate about a lot of things, and it doesn't necessarily have to be the idea itself. Like are NFTs my bread and butter? Probably not, but I love to learn. And I love to make unintelligible things intelligible to people, and I love to talk to people about artworks. And so I can apply those things that are truly meaningful to me, and make my world go around to a new idea.
It's taking up the mantle when it comes across your plate. It's not shying away from something that seems hard or difficult, or like there's a lot of obstacles in the way. But it's also remaining true to what brings you joy. And that can be anything for anybody.
Steph Wagner: Amen. So well said, my friend — very, very well said!
Well, I cannot wait to see where Meghan Doyle is in 10 years and 20 years. You are truly an inspiration and such a remarkable young woman. And once again, I cannot thank you enough for being here today and just sharing your wisdom, insights and perspective with our audience.
